HIGH TIDE - AN INTERVIEW WITH PETER HOOK
EDITOR'S NOTE : THIS INTERVIEW WAS PERFORMED DURING LOCKDOWN OVER VIDEO CALL, THE ARIES COVER HAS BEEN RELEASED ON PETER HOOKS YOUTUBE CHANNEL, CHECK IT OUT HERE!
Jack: This is really exciting! I’m a big fan of Joy Division and New Order, so thank you for doing this.
Hook: That’s not a problem, don’t worry about it, I’m a big fan of Gorillaz so I’m happy to do this.
Jack: I guess we’ll get right into it. What inspired you to start making music? Who are your inspirations/influences?
Hook: Oh dear, that’s a big question innit? I was inspired, funnily enough, by New York Dolls, I used to want to be a drummer for some insane reason. When I was very young, I used to put my books out on my bed and drum along to the New York Dolls. Then I went through a lull period and I must admit it was the Sex Pistols who actually inspired me to form a band and make music. When I saw them in 1976, it was as simple as that, we just wanted to be punks.
Jack: Those are some of the prime punk rock influences, I have both those records in my collection.
Hook: (laughs) There you go!
Jack: Your bass guitar sound is arguably the best bass sound in rock music, what effects, both studio and non-studio, do you use to achieve your sound?
Hook: Well, the first and only advice that I learned from Mick Ronson (David Bowie’s guitarist for “Ziggy Stardust” and many others) was to “hit it as hard as fuck and turn everything up full.” It’s a little bit extreme, but it’s around the same ballpark, shall we say, for everything I do. My two effects that I use mainly are a 1974 Electro-Harmonix Clone Theory pedal which I still use, to this day. I used it on the Gorillaz track, and I’m running out of them now, I’m down to my last 6 or 7. They stopped making them in 1980 I think. I also use an echo, so depending on which period I’m in, I’ve used several echoes; Yamaha, MILOS, Korg and then moving into Line 6. In studio, I will use anything that helps, I usually try a lot of things that don’t to. In the old days, studio equipment was lying around for you to look at, so you could get quite experimental with it. These days you have to look for it on the computer. Everything is on the bloody computer, and we don’t have studios that have bloody equipment anymore. It’s not bad for an old musician, cause obviously I got loads of experience in what things I wanna do, and it is reminiscent of the old days in the just playing around with sounds to experiment in what you want. But I’m usually limited to long delay, short delay and chorus.
Jack: Thank you for telling me the chorus pedal (laughs).
Hook: The Electro-Harmonix Chorus pedal is a very extreme chorus. It has a lot of treble, a lot of attack, which made it very noisy, it sounds like there is a flock of seagulls mixed in with the chorus, it’s a peculiarity of the Electro-Harmonix older pedals. So, I got in a lot of trouble for making a lot of noise, which is exactly what I wanted to do!
Jack: This is really exciting! I’m a big fan of Joy Division and New Order, so thank you for doing this.
Hook: That’s not a problem, don’t worry about it, I’m a big fan of Gorillaz so I’m happy to do this.
Jack: I guess we’ll get right into it. What inspired you to start making music? Who are your inspirations/influences?
Hook: Oh dear, that’s a big question innit? I was inspired, funnily enough, by New York Dolls, I used to want to be a drummer for some insane reason. When I was very young, I used to put my books out on my bed and drum along to the New York Dolls. Then I went through a lull period and I must admit it was the Sex Pistols who actually inspired me to form a band and make music. When I saw them in 1976, it was as simple as that, we just wanted to be punks.
Jack: Those are some of the prime punk rock influences, I have both those records in my collection.
Hook: (laughs) There you go!
Jack: Your bass guitar sound is arguably the best bass sound in rock music, what effects, both studio and non-studio, do you use to achieve your sound?
Hook: Well, the first and only advice that I learned from Mick Ronson (David Bowie’s guitarist for “Ziggy Stardust” and many others) was to “hit it as hard as fuck and turn everything up full.” It’s a little bit extreme, but it’s around the same ballpark, shall we say, for everything I do. My two effects that I use mainly are a 1974 Electro-Harmonix Clone Theory pedal which I still use, to this day. I used it on the Gorillaz track, and I’m running out of them now, I’m down to my last 6 or 7. They stopped making them in 1980 I think. I also use an echo, so depending on which period I’m in, I’ve used several echoes; Yamaha, MILOS, Korg and then moving into Line 6. In studio, I will use anything that helps, I usually try a lot of things that don’t to. In the old days, studio equipment was lying around for you to look at, so you could get quite experimental with it. These days you have to look for it on the computer. Everything is on the bloody computer, and we don’t have studios that have bloody equipment anymore. It’s not bad for an old musician, cause obviously I got loads of experience in what things I wanna do, and it is reminiscent of the old days in the just playing around with sounds to experiment in what you want. But I’m usually limited to long delay, short delay and chorus.
Jack: Thank you for telling me the chorus pedal (laughs).
Hook: The Electro-Harmonix Chorus pedal is a very extreme chorus. It has a lot of treble, a lot of attack, which made it very noisy, it sounds like there is a flock of seagulls mixed in with the chorus, it’s a peculiarity of the Electro-Harmonix older pedals. So, I got in a lot of trouble for making a lot of noise, which is exactly what I wanted to do!
Jack: How did you end up being approached for the Gorillaz track, “Aries”. How much were you aware of Gorillaz before being approached to work on the song?
Hook: I’d been aware of Damon and Blur for many, many years. I met them in the mad 80’s going into the naughty 90’s. I spent a lot of time with Alex and a lot of time with Damon in Soho House and Groucho’s when we were all going berserk. I was sort of party to them from a monk side, when they were having all the trouble with Oasis. We cried on each other’s shoulders a lot in those days, among other things (laughs). So, I knew them both very well. I’d been very kindly invited to work with Damon on his Africa Express tour with the trains. The guy is an absolute workaholic. I also was almost in a band with his ex-girlfriend, Justine Frischman of Elastica. So, I suppose we had been juggling along together for a long time. As for Jamie, I was a big fan of Deadline Magazine, where he used to do “Tank Girl”. One of my proud possessions is a first edition cover, a hand drawing that Jamie dedicated to me, which was a present from my manager a long, long time ago. I had every Deadline Magazine, my ambition was to appear in “Tank Girl”, I was in the kangaroo’s pouch, which made me very happy, I still have that copy. I love seeing Gorillaz play, I saw them at the Manchester Opera House for “Demon Days”, and I saw “Monkey” a couple years after. So, I’ve seen the band play, I love the art, I love Jamie’s comics, it seemed perfect to me, a great idea, I was very jealous of the two of them for a long time. So, coming to “Aries”, I got invited to play on it, which made me very nervous. I felt it was a great honor, I’m a fan. It’s the oddest thing in the world really, working with any of my musical heroes is fantastic, an absolute pleasure.
Jack: It’s nice to hear that you’re a fan of them!
Hook: I’m well versed shall we say!
Jack: Tell us about the recording process for “Aries”, what was the session like? What was your creative dynamic with Damon Albarn?
Hook: I was told he wasn’t gonna be there, which I was delighted about, cause I was so nervous. But when I got there, he was there.
Jack: (laughs)
Hook: It’s a funny thing, I have been a musician now for 43 years with varying degrees of success. But yet, I still get very nervous, I suppose I’m still suffering from that imposter syndrome that only punk can give you. So, I went into Studio 13, beautiful studio, very well run, very welcoming. It was an easy song to do, I’d heard the demo. Some of the things that I’m asked to play on, I can tell straightaway, they won’t work but I try anyway. Some of them I can tell straightaway will work, and this was one where I thought it was gonna work. I’m doing a song at the moment with Robert Calvert from Hawkwind, and it’s a little hard, but I’m gonna push myself to do it. He’s an influence, along with Lemmy. That one will be a lot more difficult than “Aries” was. I’m tone deaf, unfortunately, so I can’t tune my guitar, but I can tell from the track what chord to use and how to get it. But yea, when I heard “Aries”, I got it and I knew It was gonna be one of the better tunes I played on. Damon was very enthusiastic, very helpful, I was in and out of there in less than 2 hours.
Jack: That’s a quick session!
Hook: Yea, I think Damon was aware that if I stayed it would have been Peter Hook and the Gorillaz, as opposed to the Gorillaz and Peter Hook (laughs). I had a horrible period where I didn’t know how it was gonna turn out. But I must admit, that when I heard the finished track, I was absolutely delighted. It’s made me very happy, right in the middle of lockdown, to receive the accolade and success of it all, it couldn’t come at a better time for me. I’m proud of it, and I’m very proud of him for pushing me into it and making me do it. The little petition that appeared online whose goal was to make me a permanent member of the band, that really made me laugh. The song was the most played record in the download charts, its great. It’s really lovely to be appreciated, because of all the trouble that I had when New Order split and the ongoing animosity between the members of the band, it was wonderful to see a lot of the comments on the video, especially the ones saying “this is what New Order should sound like”. I’m sure it gave Damon a laugh. We all know that life is cruel, and it goes up and down, but sometimes when the clouds break, that feeling of sunshine on your face is absolutely wonderful, and on this occasion, it was a dream come true. I’ll be doing a special set on the Internet very soon, and I’m gonna do a cover version of “Aries”. I asked Damon cause it seemed respectful, and he gave his blessing wholeheartedly.
Hook: I’d been aware of Damon and Blur for many, many years. I met them in the mad 80’s going into the naughty 90’s. I spent a lot of time with Alex and a lot of time with Damon in Soho House and Groucho’s when we were all going berserk. I was sort of party to them from a monk side, when they were having all the trouble with Oasis. We cried on each other’s shoulders a lot in those days, among other things (laughs). So, I knew them both very well. I’d been very kindly invited to work with Damon on his Africa Express tour with the trains. The guy is an absolute workaholic. I also was almost in a band with his ex-girlfriend, Justine Frischman of Elastica. So, I suppose we had been juggling along together for a long time. As for Jamie, I was a big fan of Deadline Magazine, where he used to do “Tank Girl”. One of my proud possessions is a first edition cover, a hand drawing that Jamie dedicated to me, which was a present from my manager a long, long time ago. I had every Deadline Magazine, my ambition was to appear in “Tank Girl”, I was in the kangaroo’s pouch, which made me very happy, I still have that copy. I love seeing Gorillaz play, I saw them at the Manchester Opera House for “Demon Days”, and I saw “Monkey” a couple years after. So, I’ve seen the band play, I love the art, I love Jamie’s comics, it seemed perfect to me, a great idea, I was very jealous of the two of them for a long time. So, coming to “Aries”, I got invited to play on it, which made me very nervous. I felt it was a great honor, I’m a fan. It’s the oddest thing in the world really, working with any of my musical heroes is fantastic, an absolute pleasure.
Jack: It’s nice to hear that you’re a fan of them!
Hook: I’m well versed shall we say!
Jack: Tell us about the recording process for “Aries”, what was the session like? What was your creative dynamic with Damon Albarn?
Hook: I was told he wasn’t gonna be there, which I was delighted about, cause I was so nervous. But when I got there, he was there.
Jack: (laughs)
Hook: It’s a funny thing, I have been a musician now for 43 years with varying degrees of success. But yet, I still get very nervous, I suppose I’m still suffering from that imposter syndrome that only punk can give you. So, I went into Studio 13, beautiful studio, very well run, very welcoming. It was an easy song to do, I’d heard the demo. Some of the things that I’m asked to play on, I can tell straightaway, they won’t work but I try anyway. Some of them I can tell straightaway will work, and this was one where I thought it was gonna work. I’m doing a song at the moment with Robert Calvert from Hawkwind, and it’s a little hard, but I’m gonna push myself to do it. He’s an influence, along with Lemmy. That one will be a lot more difficult than “Aries” was. I’m tone deaf, unfortunately, so I can’t tune my guitar, but I can tell from the track what chord to use and how to get it. But yea, when I heard “Aries”, I got it and I knew It was gonna be one of the better tunes I played on. Damon was very enthusiastic, very helpful, I was in and out of there in less than 2 hours.
Jack: That’s a quick session!
Hook: Yea, I think Damon was aware that if I stayed it would have been Peter Hook and the Gorillaz, as opposed to the Gorillaz and Peter Hook (laughs). I had a horrible period where I didn’t know how it was gonna turn out. But I must admit, that when I heard the finished track, I was absolutely delighted. It’s made me very happy, right in the middle of lockdown, to receive the accolade and success of it all, it couldn’t come at a better time for me. I’m proud of it, and I’m very proud of him for pushing me into it and making me do it. The little petition that appeared online whose goal was to make me a permanent member of the band, that really made me laugh. The song was the most played record in the download charts, its great. It’s really lovely to be appreciated, because of all the trouble that I had when New Order split and the ongoing animosity between the members of the band, it was wonderful to see a lot of the comments on the video, especially the ones saying “this is what New Order should sound like”. I’m sure it gave Damon a laugh. We all know that life is cruel, and it goes up and down, but sometimes when the clouds break, that feeling of sunshine on your face is absolutely wonderful, and on this occasion, it was a dream come true. I’ll be doing a special set on the Internet very soon, and I’m gonna do a cover version of “Aries”. I asked Damon cause it seemed respectful, and he gave his blessing wholeheartedly.
Jack: Going back to an earlier comment, I can’t believe you’re tone deaf but can pick up the chords from hearing the music! That seems so contradictory!
Hook: Yea, I think I can’t be bothered to. Obviously, when my life is on the line, I can push myself to do it. I couldn’t tune at all when I started playing as a young punk, the guitarist would tune it for me. This worked in a punk band, but as it went on it became very embarrassing. But I must admit, that when the first tuner pedal came out, I rushed out and bought 4. So, my problem was solved in 1979 when they came out with this foot pedal. It could be laziness. I’m not sure Barney (Bernard Sumner, leader of New Order/guitarist of Joy Division) ever found it funny, but The Light find it funny.
Jack: Speaking of 1979, one of my personal favorite albums of all time is “Unknown Pleasures” by Joy Division and part of the reason I love it is its wonderful sonic landscape. The album is so open yet so dense, punk yet atmospheric. How did you guys achieve a lot of the sounds for this album, and how much synthesizers are actually used on the record?
Hook: Sonically, we didn’t have a lot to do with it. Martin Hannett, who was our producer, was a lot older than we were and was a hell of a lot more experienced. He was to blame, if you like, for the sonic landscape. When we made it, I was around 20, and I hated the sound. I wanted it to sound like the Sex Pistols or The Clash and I didn’t want it to be beautiful or dreamy in any way shape or form. I realize now that he gave us a real gift actually, because its enabled “Unknown Pleasures” to sound as good today as it did 40 years ago. By recognizing the strength of the music, he was able to give it a production that suited. His experience was wonderful and is now the stuff of legend. He was very difficult to work with as well, like true geniuses usually are, and he became more difficult as he went on. So, Barney and I learned all his tricks, so when he became a drug addict lunatic, we got rid of him for our own sanity. We then started to produce ourselves, which was very successful on “Power, Corruption & Lies” and “Blue Monday”. The main thing that was responsible for the sound was these huge 70’s echo plates, they were like the size of a wall. The studio we were in, Strawberry, had two of them. So, you would have em in stereo on opposite sides. They had a switch on it, long decay or short decay, so you could get long decay on one side and short decay on the other. You could get this wonderful whooshing sounds on the drums and the guitar by panning each sound on one plate. Martin Hannett also created the first digital delay, and people think that the soundscape is mainly that, but it’s really the echo plates.
Jack: That explains a lot. Joy Division are a different animal live as you are saying, they became a lot more primal and chaotic. You guys have a lot of live stuff out, both official and bootlegs, and I notice in a lot of your sets you often don’t go for the easy material. A lot of the sets are heavy on unreleased material, b sides and stuff from the early Warsaw era of the band. What made you guys lean so heavily on those tracks for the live sets?
Hook: The amount of Warsaw material we played was just cause they were punky. As for the others, every time you wrote a great track, you just put it in your arsenal and then your oldest song would get knocked off for your newest. It was a means to an end really, there aren’t many good Joy Division bootlegs, we were only playing for 6 months before Ian Curtis took his life, so then it was over. Wasn’t a lot of time to get it filmed right.
Jack: So, you were in another band, New Order, right?
Hook: (laughs) Yeah.
Jack: Throughout their entire career and especially during your time with them in their prime years, New Order went through numerous stylistic changes on each record. How did the songwriting process evolve throughout your time with them?
Hook: It was a struggle. As soon as drum machines and synthesizers and sequencers became easy and cheap to use, Bernard fell in love with them. He could just sequence whatever he wanted into the machines, and he didn’t have to talk to us. It was a constant fight between rock and electronic. Luckily, we managed to find a happy middle ground that lasted up till “Republic”, then it became more electronic. We brought it back to rock on “Get Ready” but then it started to veer the other way on “Waiting For The Siren’s Call”. Basically, I couldn’t stand the bastard anymore, and I’m sure he felt exactly the same way. Making music and having a creative balance is always a constant struggle, but that’s what makes it exciting. You talk about any kind of great group in the world, and it’s always the musical struggle that gives them the edge and the identity. I feel blessed to have had it to be honest, and as a creative musician who wrote for the bands, I read about other creative musicians who didn’t get that privilege, so I was lucky to get that. I managed to pull it off, really.
Hook: Yea, I think I can’t be bothered to. Obviously, when my life is on the line, I can push myself to do it. I couldn’t tune at all when I started playing as a young punk, the guitarist would tune it for me. This worked in a punk band, but as it went on it became very embarrassing. But I must admit, that when the first tuner pedal came out, I rushed out and bought 4. So, my problem was solved in 1979 when they came out with this foot pedal. It could be laziness. I’m not sure Barney (Bernard Sumner, leader of New Order/guitarist of Joy Division) ever found it funny, but The Light find it funny.
Jack: Speaking of 1979, one of my personal favorite albums of all time is “Unknown Pleasures” by Joy Division and part of the reason I love it is its wonderful sonic landscape. The album is so open yet so dense, punk yet atmospheric. How did you guys achieve a lot of the sounds for this album, and how much synthesizers are actually used on the record?
Hook: Sonically, we didn’t have a lot to do with it. Martin Hannett, who was our producer, was a lot older than we were and was a hell of a lot more experienced. He was to blame, if you like, for the sonic landscape. When we made it, I was around 20, and I hated the sound. I wanted it to sound like the Sex Pistols or The Clash and I didn’t want it to be beautiful or dreamy in any way shape or form. I realize now that he gave us a real gift actually, because its enabled “Unknown Pleasures” to sound as good today as it did 40 years ago. By recognizing the strength of the music, he was able to give it a production that suited. His experience was wonderful and is now the stuff of legend. He was very difficult to work with as well, like true geniuses usually are, and he became more difficult as he went on. So, Barney and I learned all his tricks, so when he became a drug addict lunatic, we got rid of him for our own sanity. We then started to produce ourselves, which was very successful on “Power, Corruption & Lies” and “Blue Monday”. The main thing that was responsible for the sound was these huge 70’s echo plates, they were like the size of a wall. The studio we were in, Strawberry, had two of them. So, you would have em in stereo on opposite sides. They had a switch on it, long decay or short decay, so you could get long decay on one side and short decay on the other. You could get this wonderful whooshing sounds on the drums and the guitar by panning each sound on one plate. Martin Hannett also created the first digital delay, and people think that the soundscape is mainly that, but it’s really the echo plates.
Jack: That explains a lot. Joy Division are a different animal live as you are saying, they became a lot more primal and chaotic. You guys have a lot of live stuff out, both official and bootlegs, and I notice in a lot of your sets you often don’t go for the easy material. A lot of the sets are heavy on unreleased material, b sides and stuff from the early Warsaw era of the band. What made you guys lean so heavily on those tracks for the live sets?
Hook: The amount of Warsaw material we played was just cause they were punky. As for the others, every time you wrote a great track, you just put it in your arsenal and then your oldest song would get knocked off for your newest. It was a means to an end really, there aren’t many good Joy Division bootlegs, we were only playing for 6 months before Ian Curtis took his life, so then it was over. Wasn’t a lot of time to get it filmed right.
Jack: So, you were in another band, New Order, right?
Hook: (laughs) Yeah.
Jack: Throughout their entire career and especially during your time with them in their prime years, New Order went through numerous stylistic changes on each record. How did the songwriting process evolve throughout your time with them?
Hook: It was a struggle. As soon as drum machines and synthesizers and sequencers became easy and cheap to use, Bernard fell in love with them. He could just sequence whatever he wanted into the machines, and he didn’t have to talk to us. It was a constant fight between rock and electronic. Luckily, we managed to find a happy middle ground that lasted up till “Republic”, then it became more electronic. We brought it back to rock on “Get Ready” but then it started to veer the other way on “Waiting For The Siren’s Call”. Basically, I couldn’t stand the bastard anymore, and I’m sure he felt exactly the same way. Making music and having a creative balance is always a constant struggle, but that’s what makes it exciting. You talk about any kind of great group in the world, and it’s always the musical struggle that gives them the edge and the identity. I feel blessed to have had it to be honest, and as a creative musician who wrote for the bands, I read about other creative musicians who didn’t get that privilege, so I was lucky to get that. I managed to pull it off, really.
Jack: Before the virus hit, I know you were on the road playing some Joy Division and New Order material with a backing band called The Light. What made you decide to get on the touring circuit again and play some of your old bands’ standards?
Hook: I’d been DJ’ing for 4 or 5 years, and it was great being played to play other people’s music, but it was no remedy for not playing your own. So, I started touring in 2010, to celebrate the life of Ian Curtis and Joy Division. I didn’t wanna do it with New Order cause I had no rapport with Barney or Stephen Morris (the drummer of both groups), so I asked my friends to do it, and they really rose to the occasion. We sound great as a group, and it took me a while to earn the fans love and respect cause they were rightly suspicious, but I think we have done enough now to earn that love. It’s all about sharing the music with people who love it, and I love it, so it’s as simple as that.
Jack: You can’t let the music die!
Hook: Yea, and now Barney has to play the Joy Division material live with New Order, so the fans get both sides of it.
Jack: I have one more question for you. What's next for you? I know last year you announced the return of your band Monaco and even debuted a new song by the group live at your “Joy Division Orchestrated” show. Can we expect a new release sometime in the future?
Hook: Monaco has gone on pause with the corona virus. We lost a lot of Monaco gigs because of the virus and we have not managed to get them back on. So, I’m not sure when we will return. But I have been working a lot, obviously I did “Aries” and am working with Robert Calvert. I also have been offered a soundtrack role for an American film which I am very excited for, it will be my first score. I’m also doing a New Order auction of memorabilia in October or November, so I’m doing good!
Jack: Again, thank you so much for doing this.
Hook: It’s been a pleasure to meet you, look out for yourself.
You can see Hooky perform live this weekend with Gorillaz at their "Song Machine Live" show, tickets available at livenow.com
You can also follow Hooky on his socials here!
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
And don't forget to take a listen to our custom Hip Albatross Mix inspired by the interview!
Hook: I’d been DJ’ing for 4 or 5 years, and it was great being played to play other people’s music, but it was no remedy for not playing your own. So, I started touring in 2010, to celebrate the life of Ian Curtis and Joy Division. I didn’t wanna do it with New Order cause I had no rapport with Barney or Stephen Morris (the drummer of both groups), so I asked my friends to do it, and they really rose to the occasion. We sound great as a group, and it took me a while to earn the fans love and respect cause they were rightly suspicious, but I think we have done enough now to earn that love. It’s all about sharing the music with people who love it, and I love it, so it’s as simple as that.
Jack: You can’t let the music die!
Hook: Yea, and now Barney has to play the Joy Division material live with New Order, so the fans get both sides of it.
Jack: I have one more question for you. What's next for you? I know last year you announced the return of your band Monaco and even debuted a new song by the group live at your “Joy Division Orchestrated” show. Can we expect a new release sometime in the future?
Hook: Monaco has gone on pause with the corona virus. We lost a lot of Monaco gigs because of the virus and we have not managed to get them back on. So, I’m not sure when we will return. But I have been working a lot, obviously I did “Aries” and am working with Robert Calvert. I also have been offered a soundtrack role for an American film which I am very excited for, it will be my first score. I’m also doing a New Order auction of memorabilia in October or November, so I’m doing good!
Jack: Again, thank you so much for doing this.
Hook: It’s been a pleasure to meet you, look out for yourself.
You can see Hooky perform live this weekend with Gorillaz at their "Song Machine Live" show, tickets available at livenow.com
You can also follow Hooky on his socials here!
YouTube
And don't forget to take a listen to our custom Hip Albatross Mix inspired by the interview!